Regular Called Meeting

Speaker 1

0:01 Okay. We're good. Okay. I'd like to call to order the Planning Commission's regular scheduled meeting for Tuesday, February 3. Call to order. Okay. Roll call. Steve Strait. David Clarke. David Clarke. Marston Smith and Smith. David Ralls.

possibly Vivian Ralls

0:18 David Ralls.

Speaker 1

0:20 Tom Chapman. Okay. Ruth couldn't be here, but in accordance with Virginia code two point two three seven zero eight point three, commission member Ruth Fuller has requested to participate by participate by phone due to a personal issue. Are there any objections? Nope. No. I'll call Ruth.

0:48 And Jeremy is not here today. I didn't hear him from Jeremy. He could still show us. Yeah. He likes to be late. Hello. Ruth, Tom Chapman, Planning Commission meeting. Hey, guys. Hey. Hey, Rachel. We got Justin's here, Steve Strait, David Clarke, Marston Smith, Vivian, and Mary Cline for the counsels here to watch us. And we have Carolyn and Allen over here. Okay. Great. Minutes. Jeremy's here now.

Speaker 6

1:20 And here comes Jeremy. Alright. Good day to you everybody.

Speaker 1

1:23 I said you'd probably be here. Ruth's on the phone. Okay. Minute approval. Any comments on the minutes? All in favor? Aye.

1:39 Aye. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Report from me. Invested right. I wanna mention an issue our one of our recent meetings we approved a change in the transient businesses and we actually put a statement in there about it only applies businesses or transient accommodations after the date we put it in the code which isn't yet. It turns out I kind of researched this and there's a code of Virginia 15.22307 called vested rights not impaired non conforming uses.

2:22 Basically it's grandfather thing. It says goes on for three pages, what it basically says is if some property owner has an approved thing whether it's a CUP or zoning permit or anything to build something, once that permission is given, you can't any any change in zoning code you make cannot affect them. In fact, even if the thing burns down, they can rebuild it. So that part of the language probably isn't necessary as we update the code, but I'm going to leave that to the town attorney to let you know how to leave that in there.

2:57 So, basically, Virginia's vested rights non impaired code statement really basically grandfathers everything, which kind of makes sense. Mhmm. I mean, logically, I thought it was there, but I finally found where it was.

possibly Vivian Ralls

3:10 Well done.

Speaker 7

3:13 Does this mean that you can't rent a hotel room for more than thirty days?

Speaker 1

3:20 Well, for anything that exists at this point, there's no limits on how long you can rent it. How about the next one? Well what our change in the code said was you can't rent it for more than thirty days in a sixty day period. So the next hotel someone builds in town that applies to them assuming that we end up the Town Council after public hearings

Speaker 8

3:42 puts that in the code. So it's our intention that these construction workers can't move in for a couple of months? They

Speaker 1

3:51 can live at the hope and glory, they can live at refuel, they can live at the Tide's Inn but they couldn't live at some new place that was built. That's our intention. Yes. Yes. Just want to make sure it's clear. Yeah. That's what we did. And once we I talked to Charles. Probably next week he and I are going get together and update all the sections of the code and then there'll be the public hearings after the lawyer reviews it. Okay.

4:20 Public comment? There's no public. Was it Mary's Mary's public Oh, that's true. Public. No comment. Okay. Okay.

Speaker 6

4:31 Report from town administrator. I do not have one, sir.

Speaker 1

4:34 Okay. Good. We're down to old business. 154 coding. David, is there anything you want to say about the language you're working on for the apartment We're

possibly Vivian Ralls

4:43 working on it. Sort of got sidetracked because of the accessory use component of it. And I had talked to Tom and we're not trying to do anything with accessory use. We're just going to say whatever exists is good. And if they build in B one or B two and they add on one apartment, one person, that sort of thing, that's how we're approaching it now. So I don't have it written up yet. So so one business one apartment per business? No. Okay. And we'll just grandfather everybody else in.

5:12 Cause

Speaker 1

5:12 they already are. Yeah. Apparently. Yeah. But

possibly Vivian Ralls

5:16 I just wondered if anybody has any other things to say. Anybody have any comments on that? I do have a couple of thoughts.

Speaker 2

5:23 I I believe that in b one and b two, it's a matter of right that they do can have a dwelling, and the cup is needed to add business to the dwelling because b one because r one and r two are included in b one and b two. But r one and r two have a 1,200 square foot minimum, so I wonder what you're doing with the square feet. What you're thinking about on square feet for the apartments?

possibly Vivian Ralls

5:49 That was part of the accessory use aspect that we're looking into, and that's you get into a web of stuff when you do that. What we're really trying to do is grandfather everybody who has one right now. And then either can be on top or behind the buildings. The square footage is the building itself. We're not saying you can you can we can't limit it to to square feet. Otherwise, we go into the accessory use aspects of what is the size and what is the u what the can you rent it out and all the other things that go on with that.

6:23 So it'll it'll depend on what the size of the building is is and if it's on the 3rd Floor or on the back, it depend the the side yardage will figure that out. So so no minimums? We're not planning on a minimum. Okay. Because

Speaker 2

6:40 the code has a minimum now. So I will have to say that specifically, I would think. But the code But that reference is a dwelling which is defined for r one and

Speaker 6

6:51 r two. Right.

Speaker 2

6:53 But r one and r two included in b one. Yeah. But that's for building just a dwelling instead of for a dwelling. Business. What

Speaker 1

6:59 we're trying to do is add apartments to businesses. And we don't allow apartment

Speaker 2

7:02 with a business. Yeah. Okay. I mean Which we're saying

Speaker 1

7:06 I can see how they were approved. If you build a business, you can put an apartment over it. Or if you have a house Of any size.

Speaker 2

7:12 Can add a business.

Speaker 1

7:14 Of any size. If you yeah. If you have a house If you have a house. If you have a B one, a house in B1 You can add a business to it. You have to get a CUP, but yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2

7:25 Yeah. That's true. So that's what it means. It's a matter of right. The dwelling is a matter of right. Right. That wouldn't be an apartment because we don't allow apartments in B1 and B2. We don't allow apartments in R1 and R2. Apartments is is not defined. It's the same as a dwelling. It's not it's

possibly Vivian Ralls

7:41 a I think it's specifically prohibited. Apartments

Speaker 1

7:45 or another. Multiples. Yeah. That's what we're trying to figure out. Think there's It's duplexes

Speaker 4

7:50 that are prohibited. Yeah. You're

Speaker 1

7:53 allowed you're allowed in yeah Ruth you're allowed multi family dwellings in in R 1, not in R 2, I believe. Only duplex. In R 1, but, yeah, only a two family dwelling. Right. Mhmm. Well, I'm that's okay. It's something to think about. Yeah. I mean, it

possibly Vivian Ralls

8:09 sounded an easy task. You

Speaker 2

8:13 put it in legal language. I I mean, I'm in support of apartments in big ones so whatever we call them dwellings or apartments.

Speaker 1

8:21 We may have to put some others feel but Yeah. You may have to put some other things in the code to make sure it ends up okay. It sounds like a cleanup issue really more than anything. Any other comments on that Ruth?

Speaker 4

8:34 Nope. Just as stated in email, it's still in progress because we've been a little held up. Yep. Okay. Great.

Speaker 1

8:40 Thank you, David. Thank you, Ruth. K. New business, CUP twenty twenty five Lightfoot. Yep. That is to operate a short term rental at 26 Gallyhook Drive. The

Speaker 6

8:51 local person will be Mary Burgess. We sent nine letters out. I have received two back as no objection. I have yet to receive a objection.

Speaker 1

9:06 When when did that go out? The letters? Yeah.

Speaker 6

9:10 The exact date? Oh, sometime in December it went out. Okay. A while ago. K. Yeah.

Speaker 1

9:18 And you only you've got two no objections and didn't hear from the others? Correct. K. Which are, as you know, supposed to be Appropriate. Interpreted

Speaker 6

9:26 as no

Speaker 1

9:27 objection. Yeah. This is actually, what they're they're they're doing some building here extending the house. Right? Yeah. That has not occurred yet. None of that's occurred yet. But they're basically they're they're des they're what they wanna do is designate this this house as an STR. Right? Yes. Okay. More material with all the little changes they were making to it. I assume Robinson is no objection. Direct.

Speaker 6

9:53 I never received a response from Robinson.

Speaker 1

9:56 Yeah. It's right across across the driveway. And

Speaker 6

9:59 where is Mary Burgess' residence? I don't know. Or Legacy Road. Yeah. She's here in town, but she's the the because these folks are Richmond excuse me. Richmonders that she's the designated, one hour person. Representative.

Speaker 4

10:13 Mhmm.

Speaker 1

10:14 Do we have a formal name for that person? Agent. Of the agent. Yeah. Okay.

10:22 Do we have a motion? I motion to approve. Second. Any further

Speaker 2

10:28 discussion? Yeah. I would like to make the motion contingent the approval contingent on Mary the local rep because it's not in the application. It should that

Speaker 1

10:39 that has to go in the language of that has to go in the CUP somewhere, doesn't it?

Speaker 6

10:43 No. It doesn't? No. This all I'm afraid it goes back to we we took our conditional use permit form

Speaker 1

10:53 that really

Speaker 6

10:55 You updated it. Yeah. I need I need to create one just for short term rentals because it the the existing one. But, anyway, there's nowhere in there that they designate, but I already know that they have to have someone. I have to have that person's name and phone number. It has to be ready readily available to all neighbors. So whenever this gets approved, that will be in the packet, and

Speaker 1

11:20 any neighbor It'll be in it'll be in the file, but it's not on the application itself? Correct. Okay. But the fact that it's in your files is

Speaker 6

11:27 really what you're getting at. Right? Yeah. I'm asking to amend the motion to say subject to the local rep. Okay. It would be part of the approval of our motion. Right. But I mean, that's part of the ordinance. You can't get an STR without a local rep. Right.

Speaker 8

11:44 Okay. But there's no record of it at the moment. Yeah. Very much other than this recording.

Speaker 6

11:50 Other than the minutes. Yeah. Oh, I've got it. I know she's yeah. She's got it. I've asked her to it. As soon as I get the application, I I ask them who's your local rep. K. So they communicate that over email? Yeah. Yeah. And then that will go into my file, and that's available to any resident that needs it or wants it. Okay. And that's for all short term rental. Are

Speaker 1

12:14 are you withdrawing your amendment? Or

Speaker 2

12:18 you can leave your amendment on that. Yeah. I don't know why it's a problem, but I'll withdraw. Okay. I

Speaker 1

12:24 don't think it's a problem. Maybe we we can leave it in. Okay. Okay. Let's have a vote. Steve. Aye. Jeremy. Aye. David. Aye. Marston. Aye. Vivian. I'm an aye. Okay. Unanimous. Motion's passed. I'm also an I. And Ruth, forgot something. I'm looking at the phone. I forgot to was an I I. Okay. It's still unanimous then. Okay. That was the only business we have. Any round table items?

Speaker 6

12:59 Prior to the Town Council meeting is a FOIA training. So I don't know who needs from Planning Commission, who needs to go through that, who hasn't gone through it. Everyone has to go through that once a year. Yeah. So And if you can't make that Yeah. You can make arrangements with Charles to do it online yourself and certify to Charles that you've done it. Right. Otherwise So it's not a required attendance.

Speaker 1

13:25 It's just one way of getting it done. We can the people that weren't weren't around as they were not here that day, they can call Charles. He'll give them some instructions on how to complete it. Correct. Yeah. You can do it online

possibly Vivian Ralls

13:36 or, because I'm not gonna be available. Right. You do it online or you can get the minutes of the of the actual meeting and review them and then certify to charge it. That you can see. It's a graduation. But I just wanna let you know that that's to to get your for you certification. Fifteen

Speaker 1

13:53 next Thursday? It's 05:30. 05:30 next Thursday. Mhmm. And then Town Council starts at 06:30.

Speaker 6

14:00 Got it. But we've got no we're drawing public hearing so you can bolt after that. Or if you phone in, you can hang up after that. However you want to do it. That's required for some people. Right? FOIA

Speaker 1

14:12 training required by the tire planning commission every year. So we most of us probably haven't done it except for maybe Vivian. You did it when you joined. Right? So you don't you don't you don't have to do it. But I think the rest of us have to go through it because we haven't gone through it in a year. Yep it is one time not every year. No it's every It year used to be one time now it's every year. So this will be our annual? Yep. Will This be our annual.

14:38 Yes. Avoid. It's gonna be exciting. I look forward to coffee. Yeah. Okay. Any other roundtable issues? I

Speaker 4

14:48 have one. I was curious with the deputy program if there's ever conversations around side roads just as someone who's noticed the uptick in Amazon drivers hurrying to make deliveries, and they know not to zoom past the parked vehicle. But neighborhood streets are fair game, and that's unfortunately where people are usually walking. So

Speaker 6

15:14 what I can do with that, as your town administrator, I can when they when they are here to to run radar, they'll ask me and and I'll have engage in dialogue where a good spot might be. So if that is an issue, if you wouldn't mind dropping me an email or whatever where you prefer. And I say email because that way we're not gonna be in the Rappahannock record as to where they're gonna set up. So if you just or call me on my cell phone tomorrow, and I can get where an area that you might like on the, rotation.

Speaker 4

15:54 Okay. Yeah. That sounds good. It it's more than the, kinda busybody seeing out the window. It's, like, literally flying down straight. Got it. Is the Amazon drivers

Speaker 1

16:04 more trouble than like the UPS trucks or something? Yes. Yeah. Oh, because they're just people with cars. Yeah.

Speaker 4

16:12 They can go faster. Well,

Speaker 1

16:14 They they they're not risk. Yeah. UPS drivers probably have more rules. They've

Speaker 4

16:19 they've got some training versus Yeah. Okay. A magnet on your car. Great. Interesting point. You, Ruth. Anything else? I

Speaker 1

16:27 think the UPS drivers are actually employees, aren't they? Yes. Yes. Where these Yep. Yeah. Not

Speaker 5

16:36 not surprising, I guess. I I guess I have one thing. Mhmm. Any update on, Sumr?

Speaker 1

16:42 Or I think you gave an update a few months ago, but no. Nothing more recent? Right now we yeah I mean the update I gave before is still in place we had at one meeting what's the names came in Aqua came in and told us we're too small to worry about it for them to even think about it yeah they might be interested in doing something much larger somewhere but we're just too small. And not really shocking but they were willing to talk to us. So basically right now it's too expensive.

17:12 You know the town really can't afford to build even the even the town center line itself. So something needs to happen. Yeah. Town needs to be interested in spending that much money or part of that cost has to be reduced somehow. And, that's possible if some developer does something that gets part of the cost covered. Okay. So we're kinda waiting to see what happens. If nothing happens in the next six months, I'm going to see

Speaker 5

17:41 whether we need to continue having that committee. When when we had the consultant, I remember they looked into our ability to bond and all of that. Do we have bonding capacity? Sure.

Speaker 1

17:52 Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do. Okay. Yeah. Since since we really did that thing another year and a half ago, think we if not longer, interest rates are higher. Yeah. So it got more expensive too. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. But yeah. And that there was a lot of public objection to, to

Speaker 2

18:13 the debt. Oh,

Speaker 1

18:15 Yes, definitely. Yes. And now it's more expensive. Yes. And more objection. And it will be more expensive the next year, the next year, the next year. That's right and the fact is that the proposal we had as everyone remembers Ruth is that there was a town center line so it went from the Tides Inn down from King Carter Drive to 200 and then out to Kilmarnock. So it it wouldn't serve most of the town. Right. Yeah. The whole town was more like nine or 10,000,000.

18:44 It

Speaker 6

18:44 would serve all the almost all of the commercial. Yes.

Speaker 1

18:48 Would serve Almost point. Yeah. Would serve a lot of the commercial. It

Speaker 4

18:52 would be a foundation block for future.

Speaker 1

18:56 Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. It's all true. But right now I think it's it's the the current information we have is not an economic proposal that I think Town Council is willing to support. Mhmm. Though we actually haven't asked them lately. So we'll see. Maybe something will happen with the development that'll Just wait till the Fed chair, really brings down the picture. We hear you. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And was there another part to what you said?

Speaker 5

19:22 No. I just I was just looking for that update. So thank you. There we go. Okay.

Speaker 1

19:27 Next meeting, the TC meeting is the the twelfth, next Thursday. And our meeting, next meeting is the third. Third. Third and the third. Okay. Thursday the twelfth is the is the Yeah. Town council meeting at 06:30. And then the the FOIA training, if you wanna do it in person there versus online later, is at 05:30. But the Town Council we need to be there for a vote? There's no public hearings. It's not required. It's not a mandatory attendance. So already already had it here.

20:01 Okay. Yes. A motion to, adjourn. A motion. Second. All in favor? Aye. Motion's adjourned. Thanks, Ruth.

Speaker 4

20:11 Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank

Speaker 2

20:13 you, Tom.