Regular Called Meeting

Speaker 1

0:00 Say record. Up top.

Speaker 2

0:03 Did it rip?

Speaker 1

0:04 Did it say record? Yep. Okay. Just hand it down the end of the paper. Okay. Ready to go. Call to order the Planning Commission's rigormally called meeting Tuesday, January 6 at 06:30 using preliminary agenda revision one. Phone call. Marston. Here. Ruth. Here. David. Here. Jeremy. Here. Tom. Here. Justin's here. Okay. I've got a I'd like to approve the electronic participation for let's see. Court's Virginia code 2Point23708DashPoint3. Commission member Steve Strait has requested to participate by phone due to a personal issue.

0:48 Any objections? I object. Okay. Let me dial him in. Assuming you're serious about that.

Speaker 3

1:13 Hello, Tom.

Speaker 1

1:14 Hi, Steve. We're all here and they've approved your participation remotely. Oh, great. With no objections. It's

Speaker 2

1:21 your lucky day.

Speaker 1

1:24 Okay. Approval of minutes. I think Vivian sent them out. Any comments? Motion to approve. So moved. Second. All in favor.

1:54 Report from the town administrator.

Speaker 2

1:56 I'm sorry, but I don't have one. I haven't been around since two weeks of Christmas.

Speaker 1

2:01 Okay. Old business. Review and voting on report from the Public Safety and Traffic Committees subcommittee. Not a

Speaker 4

2:08 sub Do you plan on doing the vote tonight?

Speaker 1

2:11 I think let's let's review it and see what we wanna do. Okay. Here's Vivian. Hi, Vivian. Hello.

2:20 Yep. I think I guess what I would say is the the question really is we can we can suggest changes in it. We can vote to to move it to the Town Council basically. And one of the questions is, I don't know if you have you talked to the mayor about what they want, what she wants to do? Like we can just send it to them or we can, you can have a presentation at one of their meetings or a workshop or whatever.

Speaker 5

2:48 I haven't talked to Julie about it, but I think whatever is most viable to get action is what we should do.

Speaker 1

2:56 Yeah. Well, I think that means after we're done, assuming we're okay with it or don't want even if we want to make some changes that that probably thing to do is call,

Speaker 4

3:05 I'd like to get a copy of it because I've never gotten a copy of it.

Speaker 1

3:07 Yeah. You send it to everybody in the Planning Commission, right?

Speaker 5

3:10 I, I I think I sent it to the people on my committee Yeah.

Speaker 1

3:15 And, and you. Yeah. After this, you'll

Speaker 5

3:18 send it to everybody. I'll send it to everybody. Yeah.

Speaker 4

3:19 Okay. Go ahead. But I hadn't gotten the previous versions either.

Speaker 5

3:23 You want them? I mean,

Speaker 4

3:25 I assume this replaces the previous one.

Speaker 1

3:28 Yeah. Exactly. And the other person in your house has one.

Speaker 4

3:32 Yeah. Was good enough to share it to me this afternoon because she got it today, well, after the beginning of

Speaker 5

3:37 the afternoon. She got this this one. And this one Vivian helped me out with a lot. So I was a lot of the information is the same as all the previous ones, but looks even better.

Speaker 6

3:52 So The combed its hair.

Speaker 1

3:54 Graphics. What's that?

Speaker 2

3:56 Colors and graphics.

Speaker 6

3:58 Yeah. You know?

Speaker 5

4:01 Especially because I I wanted to make it dark so that we couldn't print it out so that you guys could redistribute it. So, anyway, so this is and look, I've been doing this since like,

Speaker 1

4:15 I don't

Speaker 5

4:16 know, April, and I didn't want to get into this. I sort of volunteered myself, but I my intent is after I give these recommendations to Town Council, I'm done with it. Then I'm not looking back. So basically, that's my introduction to this. So these are the people on our committee, Vivian, Mary Carol, mister, and you mentioned Albert, Wayne, and myself. Frederick was on it at one point as well.

Speaker 1

4:46 Can you do one page at a time so it's bigger?

Speaker 5

4:48 Yeah. Think so. You'll see this.

Speaker 7

4:51 That downloads we might be able to just go to open in Google Docs.

Speaker 4

4:54 Open in Google Docs. Yeah.

Speaker 1

4:59 Maybe. Does that work, Ruth? If we have Internet.

Speaker 7

5:02 If you have good Internet.

Speaker 1

5:03 Yeah. There we go.

Speaker 5

5:06 Do you know what from here does this work?

Speaker 1

5:08 I don't think that looks the same.

Speaker 5

5:09 It does not look the same.

Speaker 1

5:11 Yeah. Go back to the other way.

5:19 You get this?

Speaker 8

5:20 Pick a pizza brush.

Speaker 4

5:22 I I the green on white is easy. I think

Speaker 2

5:24 it was under the town of Irvington online.

Speaker 7

5:28 Yeah. It should just be a tab of

Speaker 2

5:30 Or no. There it is. It says your presentation.

Speaker 1

5:32 It was up top. There you go. There you go. There

Speaker 4

5:35 you go. Alright, let's just roll

Speaker 5

5:37 with this.

Speaker 2

5:37 Roll with.

Speaker 5

5:40 So our missions, this hasn't changed since the last time except it does look better. But improving the quality of life, ensuring the safety, enhancing connectivity through the town. And you guys have seen most of this, so I'm going to go pretty fast through this. Committee, recent activity 2021 traffic study findings. I think you guys know that, so 30 miles per hour, for example, was the average speed on King Carter Route. And then Route 200 was was actually a bit less.

6:15 I think it was at 28. All that information we have That comes out of DDoT, right? It does, yeah. And you'll see at the end of this, our future recommendation is to do a new traffic study. But we want to get more information than just having the average speed. For example, that's not exactly.

Speaker 7

6:38 And the average is higher than the speed limit.

Speaker 5

6:40 Yeah. So the VDOT has said that they do give more information than what our 2021 study showed. So we'll we'll show you what specifically we want to ask for in the future study.

Speaker 4

6:55 And did the '21 study come into Irvington or is that just north of there? It's the Harris to

Speaker 5

7:00 the No. School

Speaker 1

7:02 It's in Irvington.

Speaker 5

7:02 No. The 2021 study was on Route 200 right here and on King Carter. I think on steam as well. So the Town of Irvington comprehensive plan talks about our future goals here. We've been working with David Beal who's the resident engineer of the Northern Neck for VDOT. And then one thing that Vivian actually introduced me to was this, I think you were talking about Jeremy Star's Route 200 study, which is ongoing. It's like basically right at the Ransons Dump Road up to 688.

7:36 And it's asking for public input. So I think we should tell the community, people who are interested on Route 200 trucks that this is ongoing.

Speaker 6

7:47 Yeah, if I can just add something that the input for general public is closed down already. They Oh, really? Had a meeting in the middle of December Oh. Up at the middle school that was to talk about what they had pulled in and everything. Actually,

Speaker 7

8:02 was still the same the most community involvement in last summer.

Speaker 6

8:05 It was the same night as our meeting, December 2 at the same time. Yeah. Cool. But but we do have a lot of information pulled down from what they have. And if we have something we wanna add, then we should get it to them. Like, I don't think they're going to say no.

Speaker 5

8:23 Well, I guess we should get that information from what it says. But,

Speaker 1

8:29 yeah,

Speaker 5

8:29 for example, I took that poll today Okay, mine said, this is going to a black hole.

Speaker 6

8:34 I was gonna say it didn't, it said it was closed. I mean, I was able to put my name in there and that sort of thing, but I wasn't able to answer any of the questions. Yeah. Maybe they open it back up. You could.

Speaker 5

8:45 Anyway, they are studying the shred, it seems. We'll find

Speaker 1

8:50 out more. It's because of the school district. Yeah.

Speaker 6

8:52 Exactly. Probably. Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 8

8:54 They're gonna have go to the 35.

Speaker 6

8:56 And they have recommendations.

Speaker 2

8:58 They're gonna have to lower the speed limit.

Speaker 6

9:00 So But the the I'm sorry, and I'll stop interrupting.

Speaker 4

9:03 Turn lanes Oh. Stoplights.

Speaker 6

9:04 May is when they're May is when they're supposed to have their kind of results of the study.

Speaker 5

9:11 Okay. And you mentioned stoplights, Jeremy? Stoplights are roundabout. He's 30

Speaker 4

9:17 You hear that mentioned in cocktail conversations sometime, but I have no idea what the validity is.

Speaker 6

9:22 That was one. They had two recommendations. One was a roundabout and one was stopped. At the school? Well, it's not at the school, it's at, like the entrance to Hill 0.25.

Speaker 4

9:34 Yeah. That's the that's the main entrance. Right.

Speaker 7

9:35 But I think to y'all's point, should if we're able to put input in and still put in some input because if want pick on the current high school, there's not a stoplight there or a roundabout there. So Yeah. They don't have to do anything.

Speaker 5

9:46 It does seem like we're more likely where you'd want it for

Speaker 1

9:50 I think if we wanna put an input in, we should probably have it come from the Town Council to the Board of Supervisors in in VDOT. Right?

Speaker 5

9:57 Well, outside of any avenue that the public can do, I think you're probably right.

Speaker 1

10:01 I think we're send some official.

Speaker 5

10:03 Yeah. Yeah. So based on the first presentation of this in September, I mean, some of the main comments were show what the problems are and show what your methodology is. It's data driven and it's cost effective. I mean, we're looking at what is going to just make sense for resolving our problems, actual problems in the smallest amount of money. So who is speeding commercial lines? So we've talked about all of this. One thing I'll say is that, I mean, you can read all of this, but that 85 percentile, that's not necessarily what we need in order to implement one of these solutions.

10:47 It's just some percentile that basically utilize for some of these traffic studies. We can implement these solutions if they don't exceed eighty fifth percentile.

11:04 And yeah, we want low So, cost, low maintenance, low tech solutions. So community component or community report of concerns. These are the problems that people have, we've been constantly hearing. So excessive speed on King Carter, the lane in Chesapeake, and blind turns basically. So the two problems in that area, Route 200, it's excessive speeds and unsafe conditions. We've heard in the past due to like big trucks. But in the future as we continue planning it might be for pedestrian access and public safety basically.

11:47 So, and the third one that we were just looking to tackle is town expenditures and correctly allocating our resources to do what Julie mentioned in one of the Town Council meetings. The three E's of good traffic calming engineering, education, and enforcement.

12:08 One thing I'll say that's just super smart, I'll get to it later too, but we we bought that deputy vehicle for $500 and I think that was a shrewd piece of business. I'd love to borrow it. Yeah. Exactly. Run it out. Yeah.

Speaker 4

12:23 Drive to the beach in no time.

Speaker 1

12:24 Exactly. Nice. You know, so far, you don't mention the comprehensive plan yet. Our comprehensive plan has a strategic goal about, you know, traffic safety and all that kind of stuff. Would does that belong in one of your community concerns issues? Or is it in there somewhere?

Speaker 5

12:40 Yeah, I mentioned it right here, comprehensive plan, but that is something that we looked at. And in fact, there were five or six items that had costs associated with it.

Speaker 1

12:56 It was also a goal though. So I'd say it was a 24 time town of earning comprehensive plan goals. I put that in there because that's why we appointed a committee. Yeah, that is true.

Speaker 5

13:12 Need to take notes. Thanks.

13:20 So anyway, in a previous, version of this, I did have that slide actually. So these are all the solutions that are allowed by VDOT. I think Philip Robinson suggested I put this in. You can read them all. They're all from 2018 traffic calming guide for neighborhood streets. They were all taken into consideration as we look for solutions to the specific problems, here. So this comes after conversations with, VDOT, David Beal, but and look, this isn't me making these recommendations, it's what VDOT would say they would prescribe to our specific problem in these locations.

14:04 So, on King Carter, when you go to VDOT and they ask them how can we stop speeding? They say put a pole mounted speed display up like this. You can see a six to nine mile per hour reduction on average from the eighty fifth percentile. You can see some of the details that would be a part of it. It exists in Warsaw.

Speaker 4

14:31 Their history says it's six to nine miles per hour reduction. That's right. Yeah. It's overall through the state I guess.

Speaker 5

14:39 That's right. Yeah. From it's it's on their website. All their all their facts I just took directly from their website.

Speaker 2

14:48 Mantras just got those.

Speaker 5

14:50 Yeah. Did they? Mhmm. On that turn?

Speaker 2

14:53 Mhmm. Coming into Mantra. Oh,

Speaker 5

14:57 was it at twenty five? Mhmm.

15:02 Yeah. Anyway, this is what David Beale recommends, so I'm just saying.

15:10 Route 200 speeding, look, when you talk to them an optimal solution would be like a traffic circle, for example, you guys just mentioned it around the school. North End of town, it increases safety and efficiency, all of this stuff. The issue for the town is that we can't do it because we lack the land. It's it's not

Speaker 4

15:32 not a crossway, it's a cross street. Depends on where you put it, but there's no cross street that's traffic.

Speaker 5

15:38 Yeah. Well, I mean, you could do cross street, but we we lack the

Speaker 7

15:42 It's it's less about the cross street, more about even if it's only, like, we'll pick on near the school, like Steamboat and 200, like, to get from here to here, you have to slow down and go in a circle half circle. So there You

Speaker 1

15:56 have a traffic circle with on the straight road.

Speaker 7

15:58 Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's just about slowing you down.

Speaker 1

16:01 For a lane, you don't need that. You could just have two of them. Right? You can still do it.

Speaker 4

16:05 Theoretically, can't imagine feet that would have

Speaker 7

16:08 been interesting to that. People don't usually do it because it's lot of work for a straight line.

Speaker 5

16:14 Yeah. And we can't do it because we don't have the land to we don't have the right way to do it. So, I mean, this will be the optimal solution according to VDOT, but it's like, why? We can move on because we can't do it. So what they would say is in terms of public safety and crossing the road, what we can do on our end is a raised crosswalk. You can see the details behind it. The potential location would have to be 500 feet, yards, I can't remember when we walked it, yards?

16:47 I think it was. Away from the existing crosswalk right next to the office. So Justin and Julie and I walked this with David Deal. It was right around Accent's Flower Shop. I guess I would say in the future as we consider, you know, upcoming infrastructure and all of that, it's probably approximately an appropriate location for public walk across. The next thing I would say for Route 200 is that as this committee stayed open, I kept hearing more and more that the town entrance was more appealing, so I've kind of given it more prominence here.

17:32 But you can read there's many benefits and proven speed reductions and this sort of thing for a town entrance, especially not just putting like a gate and built infrastructure, but greenery and like arched trees and that sort of thing. There is definite benefit to this and I think we can talk about funding on a future slide here, but there's long term grant or long term grant money available for things such as this, non auto means of improving transportation.

18:14 So, as far as the blind turns on King Carter, the lane in Chesapeake,

18:23 the thing that VDOT used to do is these convex traffic mirrors that are angled. They say that that actually causes some problems with distortion of views and that sort of thing. So they won't actually go do those. People are free to put them at the end of their driveway, but they're not going to recommend them. We can have advanced warning signs, we can have trimming of vegetation, of course, on King Carter Drive, that's not necessarily going to

Speaker 6

18:55 help, but It actually helped a lot. Oh, okay. I don't know if it was a night off or what. Yeah. But somebody went and cut a bunch, you know, around there by where the water tower is. Yeah. Yeah. It helps a lot.

Speaker 7

19:06 Oh, wow.

Speaker 4

19:06 Okay. Well done. But

Speaker 5

19:10 longer term, there's the potential people have talked about sidewalks. Don't know if it's there or not, but we'll get into it when I talk about the Virginia grant.

19:22 The three Es, I felt obliged to mention this because Town Council had mentioned it. It's a right balance of these three tenants basically. And we're really honed in on enforcement right now with the Lancaster Deputy Program, but perhaps if we allocate some of that money to engineering or even education incentives, it might be a positive balance for our town. So education solutions, I didn't come up with any of these. But they're interesting ideas that were bandied around as we were talking about how can you educate the population on these sort of things.

20:12 I mean, something that Mary Carroll even said that I don't think I actually put on here is scholarship funds to, for example, the big employers, which I just leave them in as such.

20:31 So anyway, educating is one of the three important sort of pillars of or legs of the stool, would say. So long term funding solutions, I think you all have seen this. Ready, Set, Go, I believe Town Council said Ready, Set, Go to them on doing a grant submission for the future.

Speaker 4

20:54 But that's just a grant for the grant writer.

Speaker 5

20:58 Ready, Set, Go is the grant writer.

Speaker 4

21:01 So we put our name into that grab bag and maybe we'll get pulled out and maybe we won't.

Speaker 5

21:08 Well, grant writer I think we've said, we've paid them and said let's go write this grant. Then if Well, is no grant writer. Ready Set Go is the grant writer as I understand. But it hasn't been allocated yet. Right, so they'll write the application for us then so we'll pay money to Ready Set Go to write the application.

Speaker 2

21:31 I thought we got a grant

Speaker 4

21:33 to pay for the grant writer.

Speaker 5

21:36 No. That's not as I understand.

Speaker 4

21:38 That's the Ready Set Go program is to give money for a grant writer.

Speaker 5

21:42 Anyway, it's Town Council's thing so they can tell you about it basically.

Speaker 4

21:48 But Justin didn't you put our name in for that?

Speaker 2

21:50 Yeah. So we've we've filed for it, and it's a particular program that would actually award us money based on certain criterias. If or when we got selected, then what I would recommend is the town rely on Northern Neck Economic Development? Yes. Because they actually have professional grant writers so we that's who does all the like Kilmarnock and stuff like that. So we've applied for

Speaker 1

22:24 the grant the program. We've applied for the program which would give us a grant to get a grant writer?

Speaker 2

22:30 No I think that would give us money and then we might have to fill out more applications. It just gets us started. We

Speaker 4

22:40 have no idea at that point

Speaker 2

22:42 what we're

Speaker 4

22:42 asking for a grant for. We just have a grant writer that's supposed to write a grant for something.

Speaker 1

22:47 The things we want to do. Right. And that money is not available for like two or three years anyway.

Speaker 2

22:52 Correct.

Speaker 4

22:53 I don't think they're not going to award the Ready Set Go winter until this current spring or maybe next spring? I'd have

Speaker 2

23:03 to go back and check Jeremy, but I don't think we can even nothing is even going to move forward until either 2028 or 2029.

Speaker 1

23:10 That's actually the VDOT money though, that.

Speaker 2

23:12 Yeah.

Speaker 5

23:14 So what And I would They pick the projects in 2027. Right? They pick they pick which projects they're gonna fund in '27, but the projects don't officially get funding from VDOT till 2029. Something like that.

Speaker 4

23:30 When you say the projects, like In Virginia.

Speaker 1

23:33 The things that you showed kind of things there.

Speaker 2

23:36 Yeah. Like raised crosswalks or roundabouts or whatever. But they can't pick those projects until they're nominated or designed. So then so if our hat gets pulled out of the ring For the grant writer? No. For for what we want Mhmm. Then then we'll get again, with the Northern Neck, we'll supply our own grant writer to say, okay. This is what we want. Now does that mean we're actually in line for that particular contest? We're we've applied so our hat's in the ring.

24:07 Oh, I thought our hat's in the ring only for the ready, set, go. Well, yes. But but that puts us in Also because I understand it. That puts us in you know? So now the next step would be, okay. What is it you want? How much money is it you would want? Mhmm. Then we would respond

Speaker 5

24:26 to that. So Ready, Set, Go is a grant writer. Writer. We you and I could write you could you and I could be the grant writers instead. Correct. So if we don't get Ready Set Go, we can write a grant.

Speaker 4

24:37 Right. For example. Northern Neck.

Speaker 1

24:39 When does a grant have to be when does a grant have to be submitted to qualify for the program? Yep.

Speaker 5

24:45 May 2027.

Speaker 7

24:46 I'm on

Speaker 6

24:47 my five

Speaker 1

24:47 here. Okay. That says 05/31/2026. Don't. Wonder if I it.

Speaker 4

24:54 You gotta take a lot of your dates or

Speaker 2

24:56 a year behind. Now, at

Speaker 5

24:58 the bottom of rate, it says May. This was the last cycle. Oh, okay. So look, they're currently reviewing it this cycle and then we'll be at so this is like an example of the last cycle, but we would be in the next cycle. Okay.

Speaker 1

25:14 Yeah. So May, so our submission for actually getting funding is May 2027.

Speaker 5

25:21 Which is what it says about That's when we would be submitted. Okay. And then they take they take basically till- It's

Speaker 7

25:29 going be in my head.

Speaker 5

25:29 A while to screen it. Yeah, it would take a while. But this is why, so any non auto transportation improvements, we really should put into this and see if Virginia is going to fund it. I mean, you wait for however many years and

Speaker 2

25:48 You've used that phrase a couple

Speaker 4

25:49 of times, help me understand that. What is a auto expense versus

Speaker 5

25:54 non auto? They define non auto as or not they say non motor transportation. So it's just cars and trucks and stuff. So, bicycles, pedestrians, all of that is. Like, the

Speaker 1

26:09 the crosswalk is a non auto. Right? Isn't it? Or

Speaker 5

26:11 Yeah. I mean, that's a the crosswalk's a Yeah.

Speaker 2

26:15 That sounds like it ought

Speaker 4

26:16 to be. Yeah. And then then

Speaker 2

26:17 flashing lights and all that stuff, that's all non auto.

Speaker 4

26:21 It's all I just didn't know what the auto was.

Speaker 5

26:24 Non motor improvement. So a sidewalk is a non motor improvement.

Speaker 1

26:28 Okay. So a roundabout would be a motor improvement. Sure. I agree. Okay. Okay. So that yeah. I got it. Yeah. That wouldn't be part of this grant money program.

Speaker 5

26:37 That's right. So comes down to these recommendations. So the number one is to perform the new traffic study and develop the baseline. We'll get, like I mentioned, well, she maybe I didn't put it on this slide, but it might be on the appendix. We'll get more information out of this traffic study than what we did in 2021. For example, that eighty fifth percentile mean, median, all of all of that good stuff.

Speaker 1

27:10 They can probably give us they can probably give us a breakdown of truck speed versus car speeds too. Right? Vivian, I think

Speaker 5

27:17 so. Yeah. What's that? So trucks versus cars, like they were able to break that down when we were in the-

Speaker 6

27:25 I think so.

Speaker 1

27:25 I think they have all that stuff, yeah.

Speaker 5

27:27 And what we can ask for, yeah. So we'll make that specific request before we do this next traffic study. Consider these, or the VDOT solutions. And do we have

Speaker 4

27:39 a scope of what to be studied or is it going to just repeat the '21?

Speaker 5

27:45 I think that, so in '21 they did it in June first of all. Mhmm.

Speaker 4

27:54 And then they want to pick another month but that's just in certain locations. I didn't know if they're gonna add or subtract locations.

Speaker 5

28:00 And they did it in the three locations. You know steamboat I haven't heard as many complaints so that was one of the three locations. I don't know if we need to do it there.

Speaker 1

28:10 We can scope it out with them at that point if we're going do another one. You know I think the big question for us is when do we want to do it? During the summer or not?

Speaker 2

28:18 Not the summer I would think. Then your rationale? Having when we were at the old office the difference in speed when the downtown was empty versus when there were people and cars and trying to park and everything, you know, coming into town from Kilmarnock when there's not one single solitary car parked, no one's at the local People go faster? Whoosh. Oh, yeah. There there's there's no incentive for them to slow down whatsoever versus So live bodies tend to slow down.

28:53 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1

28:54 There's They

Speaker 2

28:54 have to. Right? There's a car trying to parallel park. There's somebody turning around. There's you know? All So that summer traffic

Speaker 1

29:01 In terms of the number of cars though, there's more cars in the summer.

Speaker 2

29:04 More cars, but I I would highly suspect they're going significantly slower. Mhmm. You know? Why would they do two studies? One in summer, one in Sure. It's a fair question. We don't need to delve into it now, but once we get a new bridge, wouldn't you think that would be increasing number of people and car trips? It'll increase everything. Yeah.

Speaker 5

29:30 So anyway, we will, we'll figure out specifically what when we do that study or or multiple studies. Obviously, when we have that bridge, we'll probably do a new study, but that's, like, twenty thirty or something, I think. So deputy program, we can we can look at reallocating those. I mean, so the one thing I'll say is that Lancaster has an obligation to patrol for us anyway.

Speaker 1

29:56 Police Department, State Police and Lancaster patrol with even without a deputy program.

Speaker 5

30:01 That's right. Yeah. No matter what. So this is just the off average deputy program on which we I think spent up to September, think $88,000 about $40 a year. So we can think about strategically allocating that amount and we own a car, which by the way, I think it's doing quite an effective job for the last month or so. So, and then let's just get whatever free money we can out of any of these grants, is what I would say. So, there's an appendix on here.

30:35 Don't need to go through it. There's a lot of pictures and stuff, but this is the committee and thank you.

Speaker 1

30:41 I guess the question is, are there any comments on the committee's report from the Planning Commission?

Speaker 4

30:47 Just want to make sure that your final version is clear that the grant writers have not been engaged yet.

Speaker 5

30:55 I think what I said is Town of Irvington engaged Ready,

Speaker 4

31:01 Set, Go

Speaker 5

31:01 to assist or reached out to them, I guess is what I should say.

Speaker 4

31:05 Okay. In lieu of whatever the boundaries of that are.

Speaker 5

31:11 Because before I suggested, I'll just go right to grab them.

Speaker 1

31:14 You thought you're trying to get out of thought

Speaker 5

31:15 you wanna get out I do. I want out. So ready, set, go.

Speaker 7

31:20 Ready, you gonna Any

Speaker 1

31:22 comments on this?

Speaker 7

31:24 No. I think this is gonna take a lot of Town Council's input. We're just giving background info.

Speaker 1

31:33 Do you you already have any more comments? You obviously.

Speaker 6

31:36 I think I've got everything in there. The one thing that occurred to me as, a lot of samples were put in there just to help the town council members, you know, kinda get the blood moving, you know, and like, oh, yeah. Thinking about things differently is, is is maybe, like a graphic format, you know, like a table where they could go down different things. And what I'm thinking what I was thinking of it, it's almost like a Chinese menu. It's not any one thing.

32:07 Right? Like, you might say, oh, yeah. Let's plant some really gorgeous trees outside of town. Oh, and also, let's start a sticker program for all of the for all of the residents, you know, that that says I'm a great driver, you know, besides looking good. But, you know, so you can kind of put a bundle together Mhmm. You know, and that so that's the only thing I was thinking of. They would find that helpful.

Speaker 1

32:31 David, any comments?

Speaker 8

32:33 No. We're at the Town Council issue. Jeremy?

Speaker 4

32:36 Basically this is just a list of all the different alternatives that can be done. And we're trying to stimulate some conversation at the Town Council

Speaker 6

32:48 and the public. Yeah, think we wanted to, if you have any different thoughts, is what's legal and, you know, what falls within zoning, you know, what's legal through the state and through the county, and and then what are some other things that might also be

Speaker 4

33:09 What can we afford?

Speaker 6

33:09 Very cost effective that could be used in tandem with other things. Like, yeah, we might say we're gonna build or the Town Council might say, yeah, we wanna build, you know, curbs out for, you know, kind of a narrowing or something. But that doesn't mean that we wouldn't do, you know, some kind of little promotion or marketing or something in town for other things. So you can kinda layer these things on and some things go away and some things then come in.

33:37 It can be very can be a real flow to it. So but, yeah, I wanted to just kind of throw options out there that they can Certainly.

Speaker 4

33:45 Taking the 500 foot for the raised side, we'll get it 500 feet from the other road? From from the existing

Speaker 5

33:52 crosswalk at the between the office and the local Or

Speaker 4

33:56 It has to be

Speaker 5

33:56 separated by It's got to be 500 feet past that.

Speaker 6

34:00 Okay. Can you just make that one a raised crosswalk?

Speaker 5

34:03 It's well That's what the traffic is. That's what the

Speaker 4

34:09 foot traffic is.

Speaker 7

34:11 It's a better argument to make the raze further out of town because you have to slow down because

Speaker 6

34:15 it's going to slow

Speaker 7

34:16 down raze before and then you have pedestrians later.

Speaker 5

34:18 I think you're right. When we walked it that was David's preference.

Speaker 2

34:23 Yeah because to your point without VDOT will not allow you to put a race crosswalk in for the purpose of slowing traffic down. So you have to say, isn't this a perfect spot for it?

Speaker 6

34:38 Yeah.

Speaker 2

34:39 Because the way we got it at that location the sidewalk across the street ended. So we said hey if we put it here we can connect the ending sidewalk over there to our new sidewalk here.

Speaker 4

34:54 So a raised sidewalk is not a legitimate

Speaker 2

34:58 Not according to VDOT, don't say that.

Speaker 5

35:00 A raised crosswalk on their plan it does slow speeds down six to nine miles an hour but it is a public safety solution in this particular

Speaker 6

35:12 case. A traffic

Speaker 2

35:13 solution. They

Speaker 7

35:16 don't want the liability of assuming that that's going to stop someone from speeding because you can technically ram it over.

Speaker 4

35:22 So that's their official policy and they wouldn't do it just for traffic calming.

Speaker 2

35:27 Correct. Pedestrian safety they will.

Speaker 7

35:30 But it can help.

Speaker 5

35:31 Right. Would. It's proven. Okay.

Speaker 1

35:36 You got a couple minor suggestions to add in your presentation. I guess the question is what what are the what are the real what is the real next step with this thing? Because your presentation is essentially done with some minor change. I think I'd suggest that you talk to Julie about how she wants to handle it. What what I think we want to do as a Planning Commission is hand this report over to the Town Council and let them have the next steps on it.

Speaker 4

36:02 I think we ought make Brad out and make him do it five more times.

Speaker 1

36:07 Nice. We'll have the Town Council appoint him with the head of their committee.

Speaker 4

36:11 Yeah that's a great idea.

Speaker 1

36:13 Think you have one that's Let's talk to Julie or I'll meet you but let's try and hand this off to them whether they want to do it with a presentation to them or just sending them the report to me is the only issue.

Speaker 5

36:25 Yeah. Sure. We can so we'll talk to Julie about it.

Speaker 1

36:28 Great.

Speaker 5

36:29 I'll reach out to her.

Speaker 1

36:30 Any issue with that that approach? That's good. Great.

36:36 Okay. Thank you. Good job by everybody. Okay. 154 code. Proposed language. This is another we're making a bunch of changes in in one fifty four, and, this is one we talked about and documented in minutes. And this is the way I wrote up the actual motion. You

Speaker 5

36:57 got it. Alright. Passing them down.

Speaker 1

37:13 Okay. I I got more. More. Got I a couple of trees.

Speaker 4

37:22 Think real fast right here.

Speaker 1

37:24 Okay. Has anyone got one that cares? Basically, we we've talked about this, and it was brought on a lot by, you know well, our original when when Dawn Fall reviewed our code before, we talked about eliminating the tourist, what was this thing? And, there's a couple other changes, but basically the the concern that came up more recently is the idea of apartments in town that weren't really allowed. And so the question is what do you want to do? So I look at this is we can change a couple things.

38:03 The 154 definitions. The current code says hotel. A building designed or occupied as the more or less temporary abiding place for individuals who are for compensation lodged when put them in their codes. A proposed that hotel motel inn means a building or group of attached or detached buildings offering transient lodging accommodations to visitors. Any issue with that by anybody? We're basically just including in the definition motels and inns. Yeah.

38:35 We don't need to do that, but it's probably cleaner.

Speaker 2

38:37 Yes. It is.

Speaker 1

38:39 We like that? Yep. Going once. Okay. Then we have then we have in our business district b one the user regulations. Current code says hotels, motels, inns, rooming and boarding houses, and tourist homes. I'm proposing based on our past discussions that we change that to hotels, motels, and inns. Transient accommodations for visitors. It shall be unlawful for any person to put up or stay in any hotel, motel, or ring for longer than thirty days in a sixty day period.

39:11 It shall also be unlawful for the owner, operator, manager, or person in charge of a hotel motel or inn to permit or allow a person to stay in a hotel room in excess of thirty and sixty day period. And in parentheses these conditions only apply to CUPs approved after the adoption of this code change. That means that, let's say right now, that tides in or you need another one these?

Speaker 7

39:38 It it's updated from what you sent out.

Speaker 1

39:40 Yeah. Yeah. I understand. Anyway, it's it's it what it mean this this is the language in the Williamsburg code. Okay? And what it the reason we have the the only new CUPs is if the tides in and hope and glory are now sometimes renting out a place for a month or two to some exceptionally wealthy person that wants to stay there that long, this doesn't affect their ability to do that. So it only applies to any new CUPs that are issued.

40:10 And we want to do that. Well, that's

Speaker 7

40:12 I was gonna say I I have a question on that and

Speaker 1

40:14 What's this around the table? Marston?

Speaker 5

40:18 Yeah. I don't know why you need to do the parenthesis.

Speaker 1

40:21 You mean the statement or

Speaker 5

40:23 The the final statement there on the proposed code.

Speaker 1

40:26 It's it's it's because if you don't do it you you might apply try and apply it to someone

Speaker 5

40:32 like Retractive.

Speaker 8

40:33 Yeah. You're trying to grandfather it.

Speaker 1

40:34 Yeah. You're grandfathering them basically.

Speaker 5

40:37 I see. Okay. That's all. That's my only comment.

Speaker 7

40:40 Ruth? My comment is we talked in our discussion about clarity and simplifying, and this now moves into enforcement, and, like, it it's unlawful to do this. And I get that we wanted to put, like, parameters of we identify this as, you know, x y z date period, but saying multiple times unlawful to do this. And, you know, how are we going to enforce that? Basically, are you gonna shut down a motel? Who's gonna shut it down?

Speaker 1

41:10 Well, that's we have that enforcement issue. Everyone in our code and every zoning administrator

Speaker 7

41:14 But why we adding to

Speaker 1

41:15 it? Well

Speaker 7

41:16 And how are you going to keep track of this?

Speaker 1

41:18 Well, we don't want people to be building apartments that aren't apartments in town. Right? That's a universal sentiment. Is that right? That seems to be. Mhmm.

Speaker 7

41:29 I'm I'm just trying to understand. So if someone wants to stay in a motel for, let's say, three months Mhmm. It is now unlawful.

Speaker 8

41:37 Right. No. It's only unlawful if it's a new CUP.

Speaker 1

41:41 New hotel. Any existing hotel. For any existing hotel. Or

Speaker 8

41:43 new in hotel motel.

Speaker 7

41:45 So that that's what I'm asking. So if someone wants to stay in a hotel for three months, it's now unlawful.

Speaker 1

41:49 A new hotel. No. Not in the Tides Inn. Not in hope and glory

Speaker 7

41:52 I know. We're picking on new.

Speaker 1

41:53 Refuel. Well yeah.

Speaker 8

41:55 Well, that's grandfathered according to this too. Right.

Speaker 5

41:57 Refuel's grandfathered too.

Speaker 8

41:58 Everything we now know in this town would be basically grandfathered. It's if somebody wants to build on top of this building and put an apartment building in and they apply for a CUP, Therefore, they become under this one this new law.

Speaker 7

42:12 Understand that, but, like, given our limited space in this town, let's say, only one other motel ever gets built. So three are allowed to do it, but the one does not. Just don't see that

Speaker 8

42:22 It happens everywhere.

Speaker 7

42:23 The point of that, honestly. I understand, like, I'd like clarifying the definition, but, you know, these others parts of the code don't have anything about unlawfulness.

Speaker 5

42:35 If a if a future, bed and breakfast or or motel, seeks to be approved, could they go get a cup, or would it not? If if a It wouldn't it wouldn't be approved.

Speaker 1

42:48 If you're doing anything in in b one or b two, you need a cup.

Speaker 5

42:53 But the cup wouldn't would probably not be approved.

Speaker 1

42:56 I think you're well, let's just keep going. Vivian, you have any comments on this?

Speaker 6

43:03 I'm I'm trying to think it through. If I'm really wealthy and I'm gonna spend the winter in the Four Seasons in Palm Beach, I can do that.

43:18 Can't do an lease apartment, but I guess they have a code that allows you to buy an apartment at the it's Carlton or something. Uh-huh. So if somebody is building a house here and they need a place to live while the house is getting built, this happens all the time, Then they will oftentimes go to one somebody with the cup and say, oh, you know, can I rent it out for three months while my house is getting built so I'm not putting pup tents up on my property?

Speaker 1

43:49 And right now they can do it in an STR that ties

Speaker 6

43:52 And that's residential.

Speaker 8

43:54 This is B1 and B2.

Speaker 1

43:56 You can do it all

Speaker 6

43:56 those things. Yeah.

Speaker 1

43:58 The only one you can't if we put this in the code, only one you can't do it in is something that's built after this. And you could also make the argument which I thought about is that given the space in town in B1 or any B2s, what's the chance if anyone builds anything else? It's not that great. Right there. Oh, at the gas station next door. Mhmm. It's possible. Nice chunk of land. Yeah. I mean, this is this this this approach using the Williamsburg language came from the zoning administrator.

Speaker 7

44:26 Yeah. And they had an issue with that there. Like we don't have as much land as Williamsburg has.

Speaker 1

44:30 I'm just saying that that's Yeah. This was brought to us. David, any comment on this?

Speaker 4

44:34 No. You

Speaker 1

44:35 said Do you think we should be doing it or not or recommending it?

Speaker 8

44:38 Yeah. I mean, especially if it's in the future and you have to come and get a cop. I mean, why not? And it's you said we don't have that many we don't have any b two and we have limited b one. That's all it's applying to. It's not applying to anything else. You would apply

Speaker 4

44:53 to m one too, wouldn't it?

Speaker 1

44:55 Yeah. Everything m one m one is any it can be anything that's m one would count. Yes.

Speaker 4

45:03 But that's how I understand, Ruth's comment about why all of a sudden we're making something illegal that wasn't illegal before.

Speaker 7

45:10 I can understand wanting to define it better. Mhmm.

Speaker 1

45:14 What would be the what what language would you suggest here to handle the problem of someone next door?

Speaker 7

45:20 But we don't have that problem

Speaker 1

45:22 Well what I'm pointing out. It's a potential problem. You do. Well, you have a potential problem.

Speaker 2

45:27 Least I hear

Speaker 1

45:27 that in

Speaker 7

45:28 this For what else full of potential problems?

Speaker 4

45:29 Hear that complaints you say?

Speaker 1

45:31 Oh, yeah. This is in response to what the town and the zoning administrator and other town council people have heard about this issue. We're responding to that. We're not saying, hey let's try this. We're responding to requests of

Speaker 7

45:43 residents. Regarding the new bill that's

Speaker 1

45:46 out there? Yes. Some might of want us to apply that to anything that exists. I put this in parentheses thing in here so that it doesn't so the grandfathers all existing motels, hotels, and inns.

Speaker 7

46:02 I just get very uncomfortable with any time procedures or laws are made that are targeting a specific entity, which is what this Okay. Reads as.

Speaker 4

46:12 But

Speaker 8

46:13 go ahead. All laws are targeted at specific entities.

Speaker 1

46:16 But when you can point to

Speaker 7

46:18 them, they're selling the agent. It's about

Speaker 5

46:19 that thing.

Speaker 8

46:20 It's illegal to burn down a building. Mean they're all pointed at one specific thing.

Speaker 7

46:24 But this is about a specific business. This one new business. We don't need them doing it.

Speaker 1

46:28 Think we got it. Thank you. Next thing when I was looking through B Twos and I said is there anything in B 2 that we want to change? The only thing that jumped out at me was in B2 we allow bed and breakfast establishments. We don't currently have anything zoned B2 by the way, but that doesn't mean we won't have someone in the future. I was proposing actually eliminating the bed and breakfast establishment because when this was written we didn't have STRs.

46:51 And I think STRs serve that marketplace.

Speaker 7

46:54 Do they have different tax exemptions if they're labeled as a bed and breakfast versus an STR? No, no code. There's no difference. I

Speaker 5

47:07 don't see the need to change anything K. Basically. I don't know I don't know why we need to do this because any business is gonna come with a cup. So why change our language if they're already gonna

Speaker 1

47:23 Are you referring now to the bed and breakfast part or the the

Speaker 5

47:26 Yeah. Sure.

Speaker 1

47:26 Both,

Speaker 5

47:27 actually. Okay. Both. Okay.

Speaker 1

47:30 Ruth, would you would you wanna remove bed and breakfast that much from b two or leave it in there?

Speaker 7

47:36 I would rather be able to look side by side to make sure there's no differences, so I would leave it in there.

Speaker 1

47:40 K. Vivian?

Speaker 6

47:42 I have no opinion.

Speaker 8

47:44 I'll leave that. That's fine.

Speaker 4

47:46 I believe that.

Speaker 1

47:47 Okay. It's going. Okay. Well, I I wanna make a motion for the health, welfare, and good zoning practice. As the PC recommends the town code be updated to reflect the changes outlined below which now doesn't include the b two. So moved. Second?

Speaker 8

48:05 Sorry. Okay.

Speaker 1

48:08 Any further discussion?

Speaker 4

48:10 No. Yes. To put up, is that a real term? What? To what? In the b one section there, it tells a person to put up or stay. Is that a is that a colloquial idea?

Speaker 1

48:24 That's the language from the Williamsburg code. Was going to say it's Old English. Assuming we recommend this to Town Council we then revise the code along with the other things we've recommended previously and then we have the hearings on it and all that so the whole town gets to put their 2¢ in. And a lawyer can clean this up for us if there's a more direct or cleaner right side. Okay let's have a vote on this motion.

48:55 Marston.

Speaker 5

48:58 I will vote nay. I think it complicates matters.

Speaker 1

49:02 Okay. Ruth? Nay. Vivian?

Speaker 8

49:06 Aye. Aye.

Speaker 1

49:13 Steve, so will Steve?

49:17 Steve?

Speaker 7

49:19 He's been very quiet. We might have lost him.

Speaker 1

49:23 Oops, we lost him now. He's strolling now. You're there? Can you hear me?

Speaker 3

49:30 Sorry about that, vote no.

Speaker 1

49:33 You vote no?

Speaker 2

49:36 Right. That

Speaker 1

49:43 leaves me as the tiebreaker. I'm going to vote yes, let the Town Council throw it out. It passes four to three. Pretty close. Okay. Can done with that.

Speaker 2

49:56 You want me to handle new business, sir? Yeah.

Speaker 1

50:01 New business work. We're required every year, by the way, to adopt our town code of conduct and remote finish policy. Correct. We only have to sign the one. Right?

Speaker 2

50:14 Yes. So what your clerk who has to keep track of all this mumbo jumbo is trying to get everybody onto the same January schedule. Mhmm. So for example, you will also be and you don't worry. You'll get emails about this. You'll be requested to attend a February FOIA workshop. Very brief. So you could say because, again, by law, you all have to go through FOIA training. So FOIA, all you know, these two things will be your January housekeeping.

Speaker 6

50:45 Stuff I just did because I started in November.

Speaker 2

50:47 Well, you don't have to do it in February.

Speaker 7

50:51 Thank

Speaker 2

50:51 But we're trying to get everybody on the same page. So everybody got this in your packet. Hopefully, you've read it because you're about to say that you read it. So if you would all sign that and write your name next to your signature, please.

Speaker 4

51:05 What is the code?

Speaker 2

51:06 This is saying that you acknowledge your code of conduct. Mhmm.

Speaker 1

51:10 It says you're not gonna do anything you're not supposed to do. Correct.

Speaker 2

51:15 Like, open up small of the air care.

Speaker 5

51:20 So what is the way is it? Is that a loud and orange sounding?

Speaker 1

51:23 A small

Speaker 2

51:23 of the air care? Yeah. Sure. I'm tempted to open one. Kidding me?

Speaker 1

51:27 The February 12 meeting is is the FOIA meeting?

Speaker 2

51:30 Yes. At 05:30.

Speaker 1

51:32 Okay. So it's right before the town hall meeting? Yes.

51:39 Hey, Steve. Would you send a note an email to Charles saying that you've agreed to the town of town code of conduct?

Speaker 3

51:50 I can do that.

Speaker 1

51:51 Or maybe actually, when you get back in town, just go into the town office and sign the form.

Speaker 3

51:59 Got it. I'll do that.

Speaker 4

52:01 Great. Thank you, Steve.

Speaker 1

52:31 There you go. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Okay. Any round table issues? Marston?

Speaker 5

52:38 I have one question. The Tideson has a big orange fence around it. Yeah. That was interesting to see.

Speaker 2

52:49 About the remote policy?

Speaker 7

52:51 Going go to

Speaker 2

52:52 remote policy?

Speaker 7

52:53 You see remote policy?

Speaker 1

52:54 Is any yeah. Everyone's familiar with the remote policy. Basically we, have to we have to basically allow people to call in and allow them to call. And I think that's really it. There's a lot of other stuff about having totally electronic meetings. Don't do that anyway.

Speaker 5

53:11 Okay. On to the roundtable. Was it interesting for anyone else to see that fence because we have a fence ordinance but except for we don't have a It's construction.

Speaker 1

53:21 We don't have a fence ordinance.

Speaker 5

53:22 So that's like the limits of disturbance of a construction project?

Speaker 4

53:27 Mhmm.

Speaker 5

53:27 Excellent.

Speaker 4

53:28 Good.

Speaker 7

53:29 Yeah, considering it's just been stakes and orange fencing for probably about two months.

Speaker 5

53:34 Yeah, been wandering the larger limited disturbance so.

Speaker 1

53:38 Well they're redoing all the landscaping I think so they probably put it around the whole thing.

Speaker 7

53:42 People tend to wander onto the tennis courts and so they're probably like just we don't want deal with broken ankles.

Speaker 6

53:48 We're not open. It was the guard towers and the big spotlights that I have a problem with.

Speaker 1

53:53 Maybe it's a snow fence.

Speaker 2

53:54 The Dobermans were friendly.

Speaker 1

53:57 Ruth any roundtable items? Vivian? What? Any roundtable items? No. David?

Speaker 8

54:04 Yeah we have a, Ruth and I were, sort of charged with figuring out the apartment above buildings. Is this are we writing a code here, or what are we doing? Yeah.

Speaker 7

54:15 This request by Town Council?

Speaker 1

54:17 Yeah. Apartment apartments right now are not allowed in our code. Period. They're not mentioned. But we have apartments associated with businesses. We discussed it at the meeting before and said, we, you know, probably ought to put something in our code so we have some clarity around the issue.

Speaker 2

54:35 Yeah. If I could respectfully submit to you from the zoning perspective, we have conditional use applications that have been approved with, you know, retail on the 1st Floor and apartment above it. I'm fine with that, but it does seem a little odd to me looking at it when you're approving something that isn't even allowable in your code.

Speaker 1

54:59 You've never actually approved one of these there prior to you being here? Yeah.

Speaker 2

55:03 And some them were not

Speaker 8

55:04 talked about.

Speaker 2

55:05 Would be more clarifying and helpful both to the citizen or or builder of something to say, yeah. You can do that.

Speaker 8

55:13 Okay. So that's

Speaker 2

55:14 what And in your conditional use permit, when you ask for that apartment above the the retail store, that's an allowable allowable use. We'll consider it.

Speaker 8

55:24 Yeah. So we're we're being asked to write a a small zoning code that allows apartments in B 1, B 2 above existing offices.

Speaker 2

55:34 Or just B 1? Or new or new construction. New okay.

Speaker 1

55:37 B 1 or B 2. Okay.

Speaker 2

55:38 New construction offices. You know? Bruce had one down in M 1. Yeah. Okay. You know? So but but it's just as your staff member, it's just odd to see a piece of paper approving something that we don't even allow.

Speaker 7

55:51 Clarity, Town Council knows there's that gap and that we're gonna look into it.

Speaker 1

55:55 Yes. Mhmm.

Speaker 7

55:55 So we're not just like, hey. We came up with a thing. And they're like, what are you talking about? Right.

Speaker 2

55:59 Yeah. They they're aware that there's Okay.

Speaker 1

56:02 You know. Jeremy,

Speaker 4

56:04 roundtable issue? It'd be nice to clarify that.

Speaker 8

56:08 We'll get it done.

Speaker 1

56:09 Yeah. Great. Steve, any roundtable issues from you?

Speaker 3

56:14 Yeah. I just wanna point out that single family dwellings are permitted in B 1

Speaker 1

56:20 Yes.

Speaker 3

56:20 As part of R 1. So it's not that much of a stretch to permit a single family apartment as part of the B one. I I understand it's not clear, but I I also don't think it's necessarily prohibited.

Speaker 2

56:37 Well, that's where it gets weird because our ordinances say anything not clearly defined is prohibited. So when you don't have the word apartment in there, in theory, ordinance says you can't have one. You should you should never been

Speaker 3

56:55 A dwelling is a kitchen, a bath, and a bedroom.

Speaker 1

56:59 Right. So you but your point, Steve, is that since you can build a you can build anything in b one that you can build in r one that someone could take a b one property and build a single family dwelling. Correct?

Speaker 3

57:15 Right. As part of it.

Speaker 2

57:17 But what about a commercial part with a residential component?

Speaker 1

57:22 Let's say Yeah.

Speaker 3

57:24 Like I said, it's it's correct.

Speaker 1

57:26 I think what I get what you're saying is someone can build a single family house in a B1 property and can rent your single family house out. It would be an apartment. It would be a house, it wouldn't be just an apartment, would be a whole house. So yeah someone could do that. That's allowable in our code.

Speaker 8

57:46 What if we amended the code just in that exact sense and just put the word apartment in? Allowing the word apartment.

Speaker 1

57:55 I'll leave that to you and Ruth to suggest

Speaker 7

57:57 it for

Speaker 1

57:58 next time rather than have further discussion.

Speaker 7

58:00 I'll bring the end. And then you gotta

Speaker 8

58:01 do Can

Speaker 7

58:02 can I just make

Speaker 6

58:03 a on this on this topic since she was after me, Doesn't this go back to the discussion we were having last month about, not turning the upstairs, like, into an apartment building, but it's just an apartment for a single family or for the owner or A single apartment.

Speaker 1

58:22 Yeah.

Speaker 6

58:22 Yeah.

Speaker 1

58:23 Or just multiple apartments. That's what David and Ruth are gonna come back with some more detail on

Speaker 7

58:28 that. Okay.

Speaker 6

58:30 Okay. So so that is part of it though. We don't want it to be apartments.

Speaker 1

58:35 Yeah. Right. No. Right. Yeah. Right.

Speaker 8

58:38 We're just trying to get it clarified that what they have done is legal.

Speaker 1

58:42 And what we want to allow in the future based not on the judgment of the zoning administrator because someone said that's one already. Okay great thank you. Next meeting, TC meeting's January 8, regular scheduled meeting. There's also a quorum required for that. Who's available for this Thursday's meeting? Vivian is? Jeremy is?

Speaker 3

59:03 I am Steve is.

Speaker 1

59:04 Steve is? Okay. We got a quorum.

Speaker 5

59:09 Tom, I'm handling, I'm gonna reach out to Julie, but there's no I'm not gonna present at that meeting.

Speaker 1

59:15 No. No. Probably not. Yeah. Maybe in the future. Okay. February 3 PC meeting at, 06:30 right here. Thank you everybody. Turn off our recorder.

Speaker 8

59:28 Listen. Sounds like

Speaker 5

59:29 a Really? All in

Speaker 1

59:30 favor of a journey.

Speaker 2

59:31 Yeah. Bye.

Speaker 1

59:32 Yeah. Steve? It's pretty cool.

Speaker 7

59:35 I want

Speaker 3

59:35 to Bye.